teleios blog
Thwaites September 2008
Been busy of late, writing a book; somewhat submerged, whilst endeavouring to keep afloat in all those accumulating things of life. I put this in the book I was writing, in a chapter called 'locating the heavens of Abraham'. It goes by the name: flat earth, myths and muffled laughter ‘There’s no way I am joining your flat-earth society, with its three-storied universe hanging there in space. It’s just too simplistic,’ said Thomas the theolog; who was, by co-incidence, a nephew of a well-known uncle by the name of Plato.‘Well,’ said Isaac, standing up for his father’s belief-system, ‘you do realise that you have actually made your decision on this issue primarily on the basis of what you think about space?’
‘What are you talking about?’ gasped Thomas.
‘Well, it’s your concern about or dislike of the spatial and material dimension that has caused you to declare that heaven, God’s heaven, has nothing at all to do with space, let alone time and matter. You complain about my use of space to understand the truth about heaven Thomas, but you wont let me complain about your misuse of that very same space to establish your own doctrine of heaven.’
Thomas realised the trap being set before him and quickly changed tack. ‘You must realise that this heaven above us thing is simply a metaphor, a myth; it just put there to represent something that is true about God.’
‘Could it also represent the truth that heaven exists in the dimensions of space and time?’ said Isaac.
‘No, it can’t,’ came the swift reply.
‘OK then Thomas, if heaven is not above the earth, then where is it? Or more to the point, where have you decided to put it?’
‘Well that’s easy; it’s… yes, it’s in the next life.’
‘And where, pray tell is that?’
‘Well, of course, it’s where Jesus is, waiting for us on the other side... you know, when we die and go to heaven.’
‘Thomas, can you tell me why there is no mention of anyone dying and going to heaven in Scriptures.’
‘What do you mean?’
‘Well, there’s people dying and going into the dust or to Sheol. There are people falling asleep in Jesus, and being woken up to be resurrected into heaven. But no one actually dies and goes to heaven. The reason for this being that heaven is not in the next life, it’s here right now over and above us.’
‘Again, Isaac, a lovely idea, but too simple. I mean, surely, there’s lots more going on than what you have described with your cute pictures?’
‘I certainly hope there is Thomas. But you see you also have your own, dare I say it, to my mind, less than cute picture as well. My question pertaining to your little graphic is two-fold: who gave you this picture and who gave you permission to remove God’s heaven from the earth and put it in the next life after death?’
‘My answer to both questions is no one, because what I am stating here is a well-accepted and simple truth.’
‘Thomas, if you want I can tell you who drew your picture of heaven for you.’
‘So now I’m on the defensive, am I? You may well introduce Plato at this point, but the reality is that your vision of heaven above and earth below is just another expression of his dualism. It’s well known now among theologians that the Jews adopted that thinking early in the piece – probably even from before the exile, but most certainly after it. First there was the Persian brand of dualism, then with the Greek invasions it took hold even more; and from there continued right up to and through the time of Christ.’
‘Thomas, I do not doubt the influence of Greek and other cultures influencing the cosmology of the Hebrew people. Philo, with his matter and spirit dualism; the Pharisees, with their Greek doctrine of the immortality of the soul; and the Sadducees, also helped by the Greeks to deny the physical resurrection of the body: all of these to one degree or another came under the sway of dualism. But you can’t say that just because I, or for that matter Paul and Jesus, distinguish the heaven of God from the other heavens or from the earth, that I am being dualistic.’
‘That’s exactly what I am saying, Isaac.’
‘OK Thomas, the gloves are off now. Firstly, there is a universe of difference between ‘division’ and ‘distinction’. When Plato divided the material from the spiritual and the earth from the heaven, he did so by using negation; as in heaven is not earth, earth is not heaven. Negation is the cheapest and easiest form of comparison and is always left wanting in regards to any real substance. It’s like defining a woman by saying she is not a man. There is no sense, no traction, nothing to be had by asserting such a comparison; unless of course you are aligning yourself with Plato and want to set up another power play.’
Thomas was about to interrupt, but now Isaac was on a role.
‘Like man and woman Thomas, the heavens and the earth are not negations of each other. Rather, they are related and thus understood by the comparative distinctions between them. Like Isaiah 55:9, God says, "for as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts”. This is to say that even the qualities or attributes of the eternal transcendent God can only be understood by comparing them to corresponding qualities and attributes of us image-bearing humans.’ ‘OK, granted, good point. But really, besides the embarrassment of holding on to your beliefs, what other benefits are there in holding on to this rather childish story line?
‘At this point Thomas, let me introduce Freud. As much as a lot of stuff he said was suspect, he did say something that has stuck with me. He said that no one can imagine their own death because they have no precedent for it. Death cannot be understood by saying, ‘Oh, it’s just the absence of life’. Like I said, we may think we know what such a negation means, but in reality we don’t, we can’t know; we have never died.’
Thomas nodded. He was about to say something about Lazarus, Martha’s brother, but instead signalled to Isaac to continue his psychoanalysis:
‘So imagine what happens when we put heaven over ‘the divide of death’; we have no precedent for that dimension or that destination; again, nothing but negation defines it. To think this life has no heaven, but that after death I will have heaven, is to lose the ability to even know in part the very heaven that you think you must die to experience.
To make my point by employing a well-known statement: ‘take care how you listen Thomas; for whoever has [heaven], to him shall more [of heaven] be given; and whoever does not have [heaven], even what he thinks he has [of heaven] shall be taken away from him’ (Luke 8:18).
To my mind, Thomas, the stealing of heaven ranks among the greatest crimes of history. Sure, the Christian can still experience the presence of God, but their inability to align that presence with the present created order significantly diminishes their capacity to take hold of that presence in daily life. The confusion that arises from a life that is made to continually pine or long for a heaven that has been constructed in their minds by a set of negations is too sad for me to tell. And that this pining deficit is then taken up and often confused with devotion or identified with one’s desire for God; I cannot go there.’ ‘Isaac, I accept most all that you say, but not as reality, rather as analogy. I just cannot join your flat-earth society.’
‘Thomas, even before the Jews or the Europeans finalised their thinking on the shape of the earth, the heaven of God, wherever it was located, still existed as it is today. This is to say that one’s thinking about the shape of earth does not change the nature of things as they really are; just as your current thinking about heaven doesn’t change the nature or design of the heavens and the earth as they really are.
You know it, Thomas, the eternal Father God, in whom exists the eternal Son (John 1:18) ‘in whom all things hold together’ (Colossians 1:17); that same one who ‘upholds all things by the word of his power’ (Hebrews 1:3). From the beginning of creation this is where all created things have been situated: in God. The idea that you could remove any heaven, let alone God’s heaven and place it ‘platonically’ elsewhere is preposterous! As far as I am concerned Thomas, you have removed heaven from space and time and from there proceeded to, in your own head, place it no-where.’
James Thwaites May 2008 The need for a creation theology Who would have thought that 200 years after the Reformation that commenced around 1520, much of the Church in Great Britain thought that good works were the best way to get to heaven and that Christ was a good man with god-like qualities. Isaac Watts, the great hymn writer (1674 – 1748) was on the verge of denying the divinity of Christ, when he came upon the likes of Whitfield and Wesley and got with the divine program again. Whitfield and Wesley were used by God to usher in the Great Awakening that restored Christianity to its orthodox foundations, and profoundly influenced the fledging nation of America.
A few centuries on (circa 1920’s) however, much of the Methodist movement had been diluted into the same old hopeful humanism: again good works will get you there and Jesus is a nice guy, a lot like God but not really God.
In response, Christian fundamentalism (not the terrorist kind, but the straight Bible advocates) emerged in the USA, the Pentecostals took off from Azusa Street, and Karl Barth introduced his neo-orthodox brand of belief. Again, orthodoxy fought back.
I could give lots of other examples of this pendulum swing between conservative and liberal expressions of Christianity. But let’s press on, asking: why does this happen? life is complex, but here’s one take on this to consider:
Let’s at first describe the movement or process that happens. The New Testament teaching establishes a framework for life that has to do with justice, mercy and the like. People head out into the world to put that into practice, but over time they become so identified with that world that their initial beliefs become integrated or one with similar beliefs held by ‘good people’ of that ‘world’. So far things are still mostly OK – re. orthodoxy.
Soon, however, these saints start to believe that the Christian ‘thing’ is one with the world ‘thing’; that God is the social process that is moving us all towards the realisation of justice, mercy and love – world peace. In Nazi Germany, many of the Christian denominations were drawn into thinking that Hitler was God’s instrument to restore their nation to its divine purpose. The results of this identification of God with the world process were not good. And so the Christian’s head out into the world, get stuck in the world process and become diluted to the extent that they no longer carry any distinction from that world. In response to this, the Conservative Orthodox leaders call everyone back to primary doctrine (or as Scripture calls it – ‘elementary teachings’) and submission to leadership. And back we go again! Is there a way out of this bi-polar activity? I hope so and, in hope, I believe and from there I would dare to speak... the creation is not the world...
I think that one of the main reasons why this pendulum thing happens is that people confuse the world system with the creation; in effect they make the two one and the same thing. The reality is, however, that they are two very different (even though related) things. Creation: (Gk. ktisis) refers to all that God has made (both directly and indirectly); both the seen of nature (people, animals, plants, cars, etc.) and the unseen (love, hate, education, faith etc.). It speaks to us of all that exists on and in the earth and all that exists in the human and angelic realms over the earth.
World: (Gk. cosmos) speaks of the systems of humanity that have now become substantially dominated by ‘the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life’ (1 Jhn. 2:16). John the apostle says that we should ‘not love this world, nor the things in the world’. He then adds that ‘if anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him’ (2:15).
The world system sits within the larger context of the creation reality. This creation, as indicated, involves all of life – seen, unseen, relational, work and all things God has made. dividend…
It is from this hebraic/creational standpoint that I believe we can engage the world system; being both one (in the best sense of that oneness) with the people of that world, but keeping our distinction within that world system. This is possible because the hebraic understanding of the created order, when put into practice or put to work, actually brings the Christ, in whom, the Scripture says, ‘all things [of creation] hold together’ (Col. 1:17), into much clearer focus.
When the hebraic vision of the body of Christ – the church standing in creation in Christ – comes into view, we can begin to approach ‘all things’ from a very different standpoint.
This hebraic reality gives us the sight and the impetus we need to head out into our inheritance in creation, ‘leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ.. [to] press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation…’ (Heb. 6:1). So instead of bunkering down in our local churches, we can begin to move out, not into the world system, but into the created order. As we do this, we will engage this world system in a profound ‘distinct from’ but ‘one with’ manner.
We will know that this world system, still to this day a recipient of the grace of God, who ‘so loved the world’, has the creation reality breathing in and through it all the time. strategic discoveries of the Christ...
And from there we will be able draw down the strategies from Scripture given to the church in creation – those articulated in verses such as Matthew 5:16, Ephesians 3:10 and Romans 8:17-28.
Paul speaks in Ephesians 4 of the ministry gifts who are meant to equip the saints for the work of service (ministry). His teaching here is set well and truly in a creation context. It’s as we do these works in creation (in line with Matthew 5:16), Paul says, that the body will be built up, and the unity (Eph. 4:13) of that body ‘fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies (Eph. 4:16) will emerge.
From there we are informed that what will emerge is ‘the knowledge of the Son of God’ (Eph. 4:13). This ‘knowing’ or experience of Christ is not just knowing doctrine about him. It’s also something more than an experience of his presence in a gathering or in private prayer.
This ‘knowing experience’ is of the Christ – the Son of the living God now made man – standing on earth and though the heavens (Eph. 1:22, 23) over our cites and nations in his body the church; a church that right now exists in creation. Now that, to my mind, seems like a good antidote to mild-mannered liberalism and a great tonic to orthodox saints holding too close to elementary doctrines and the places in which they are continually preached. The teleios conference on May 24th in Sydney is about getting hold of a strong and clear creation theology, and gaining more sight and more sound of the eternal purpose God has in mind for all of our life and work in creation.
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Jim Thwaites April 08
Regarding the upcoming teleios conference in May... I have been asked a few times what would be my desired outcome for the teleios conference in May. When I think about it, it's the conversation that will happen both on the day and as a result of the day that most captures my imagination. As Christians we have been given a certain language set with which we make sense of life and through which we communicate to others. If that language is lacking or confused or in contradiction with Scripture then our corresponding conversation with life and with others will follow suit. My nemesis Plato!! has seeded much of our conversation with his divide-and-conquer language, leaving us very constrained in regards to the words we might use to describe our world to ourselves and to others. That's why when a different worldview is applied – our good friend the hebraic – with its unified fit, its simple description of heaven over earth and it vision of the church in all of creation, then the language we speak is able to change. New words come in to our vocabulary, with new content directing us to see things we have not seen and relate things together that we have to date seen as divided. picture this… To my mind, sitting behind a person's culture and the worldview that informs that culture is a picture of the way they 'draw their universe'. Most probably you have seen a magnet put behind a piece of paper on which iron filings are placed with then align with the pattern of the magnetic field. So too with life, the picture or the graphic we have in our mind will determine how and where we will place and correlate (or make sense of) our beliefs about life in God. I have been in numerous setting where people have begun to use the hebraic graphic of the universe (creation) and with that were given access to a set of words (a language) that matched that graphic. At first it was difficult for them, but over time they began to make new links with their work or their good desire or certain relationships; links that fitted into the hebraic pattern of life in creation. From that place they were able to begin building a very different view or approach to different aspects of life. In the planning and conversations around the afternoon workshops, it's been great how many insights (wisdoms!!) have emerged just by focusing in on the right graphic, the right picture of life in creation. These kinds of conversations and the agreement between people that arises from them, enable new things to emerge, new relationships, new ways of seeing work, community, worship and more. During the teleios conference day, lots of good connections will be made, which is great. But what interests me the most is how a new, but very ancient, conversation will be had; a conversation that others will be able to join; a conversation that will grow and enable people to link and work together in different ways that they have not, to date, been given permission or language to do so. That Ephesians 3:10 revelation always comes to mind when I think about this kind of conversation. If we talk together in line with the language God has designed for us, then we will be far more able to join together in sync with that design. Such will enable us to more intentionally work together in a way that will give impetus to the emergence of that ‘manifold wisdom of God’; leading to much more of it being made known to the heavens and the earth. Looking forward to Christ’s body getting much better known to the heavens and the earth via such a conversation and in the process getting to know more about itself in relation to those heavens and that earth.
